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Low End Mac on Google Groups

Low End Mac's Mac-n-DOS Group

A group for users of Macs & PCs

group begun 2000.08.18, moved to Google Groups 2006.09

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Mac-n-DOS is a forum for Mac users who also use Windows - and vice versa. The group covers software emulators, hardware cards, file sharing, networking, and any other issues involved in using both operating systems on the same computer or network.

Be sure to read our guide to netiquette before posting to the group. If you wish to discuss group rules, please join LEMlists, our 'meta-group' for discussing our groups and their rules.

Administrivia: These lists are currently served by maclaunch.com, which is a separate entity from Low End Mac. We do not own or manage their mail/list server; we only manage our own lists on their server. We have no control over "warning/bounce" messages sent by the maclaunch.com mail server. If you ignore them, they will not go away, and you may find yourself dropped from the list eventually.

If you reply to them, they should go away - but they may not. We have no idea why these messages are being generated; we have made maclaunch.com aware of the problem. That is all we can do. Note that the list server has been set to reject styled messages and email with attachments, so when responding to warning messages, be sure your response is a plain text email.

WARNING: Users are advised that Microsoft Outlook Express comes equipped with a junk email (spam) filter which, when turned on, may relegate legitimate emails, such as electronic greeting cards from family or friends to the junk mail folder, and dispose of them according to the user's preferences.

From Microsoft: Microsoft is aware that Outlook Express 5 Macintosh Edition's Junk Mail Filter may identify as suspicious some email messages that a user may want to read. Microsoft is working closely with industry experts to improve the Junk Mail Filter to help people better separate wanted and unwanted messages. For example, we recently learned that the subscription-based TidBITS newsletter was identified as suspicious. To assure that any wanted email, such as the TidBITS newsletter, is not marked by the Junk Mail Filter, please use any one of the following quick and easy solutions:

Add the address of the mailing list to your Address Book
Add the domain name of the Sender (e.g., tidbits.com) to the exception list in the Junk Mail filter
Use the Mailing List Manager to create a Mailing List Rule for that Sender

How can I subscribe to PowerBooks?

There are several ways to read messages from The PowerBooks List:

Individual messages
Abridged messages, a daily summary of messages
Digest mode, a daily collection of full messages
No email
Online

You can subscribe via email or online.

To subscribe via email, send an email to mac-n-dos+subscribe@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe, send an email to mac-n-dos+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. You must register online if you wish to set your subscription to digest mode, abridged messages, or no email.

To subscribe online, go to http://groups.google.com/group/mac-n-dos and click on Join this group. You do not need a Google/Gmail account to participate. If you don't have a Gmail address or wish to use another address, click on the Sign up now link.

Although you will begin receiving messages from the group right away, Google Groups will not accept an email posting until you confirm your email address. Also, in an attempt to keep spammers out, the first messages from new members will be checked by a group manager before they are posted.

You will receive a confirmation email from Google Groups at your subscribed address. You must click on the link in this message to verify your email address. That will generate a second email from Google Groups, and it's only after responding to the second message that you'll be able to post to the group. Watch out - one or both of these may be marked as junk mail by your spam filter.

Use http://groups.google.com/group/mac-n-dos to change your subscription mode or remove yourself from the group.

To help prevent spammers from using the to the entire group, and to keep others from subscribing your address without your approval, you will receive an email from the Google Groups server asking you to confirm your subscription. Simply reply as instructed and your subscription will be active.

Please report any subscription problems to the group owner at .

Online Subscription Management

Go to http://groups.google.com/ and select "Sign in". Enter your subscribed email address and password. You may also want to check "Stay signed in".

Google Groups will display a list of all groups that this email address is subscribed to. Click on "Manage my memberships" - this is where you can change your nickname, your subscribed email address, and your subscription type (how you receive messages from the group).

What about anti-spam services?

We take whatever steps we can to keep spam off our lists, but short of moderating every message on every to the entire group, we can't prevent some from occasionally reaching the list. Whatever filtering you do with your email software and your email service is up to you.

That said, we take a dim view of anti-spam services such as Spam Arrest and Cashette that require the sender of a message to respond to a message from the anti-spam service (a "challenge and response" system) before allowing the recipient to receive the posting. Such a service inconveniences anyone who posts to the group and is unnecessary.

These are all closed lists, so there should be virtually no spam. Only those who have requested a subscription and confirmed their subscription are allowed to post. Please don't inconvenience our members by asking them to jump through hoops to keep your mailbox spam free.

Any subscriber using this kind of anti-spam service for group messages will receive one warning and be temporarily blocked from posting to the list. If the situation is not resolved quickly, the subscriber will be banned. The burden should be on the spammers, not innocent group members.

Note that this applies specifically to messages sent to the group, not to individual correspondence with group members.

How can I distinguish messages from the PowerBooks List from all the other email I get?

Messages from this group will include "mac-n-dos" in their footer.

Who oversees Mac-n-DOS?

Dan Knight of Low End Mac manages Mac-n-DOS, which was begun on August 18, 2000.

Is Mac-n-DOS only for users of Macs and PCs?

While anyone may join, this group will be most helpful to those using or considering the use of both the Mac OS and Windows.

How does Google Groups work?

Anyone who has access to internet email may subscribe to Mac-n-DOS using the subscription address mac-n-dos+subscribe@googlegroups.com to join the group. Members can receive an email copy of every message sent to the posting address, mac-n-dos@googlegroups.com. If you wish to reply or post a new message everyone to the group, send email, either replying the message to which you are responding or sending a new one, to mac-n-dos@googlegroups.com.

The group is set up so selecting "Reply" to an individual message in your emailer will send a message to the entire group. (Replying to the digest will send your email to noreply@googlegroups.com, a black hole for email.) If you wish to respond individually to the sender of the message, be sure to address your message accordingly. There should be no need to copy messages to both the author and the group, since the author is a member of the group.

When replying, always ask yourself if your reply should go privately to the sender or to the entire group.

Do you have rules for replying to the group?

Yes, we do.

Please post your messages in English, as Low End Mac and these groups serve a primarily English-speaking audience. Postings in other languages will be rejected by the group managers.

We ask that you only quote relevant portions of the original posting in your reply, and we recognize that the Google Groups online reply system may not allow that.

We also ask that you not use your email program's reply feature to begin a new discussion. This is because Google Groups may see that your message as a reply based on data in the message header and add it to an existing thread. When starting a new discussion thread, be sure to compose a new email instead of replying to an unrelated message.

What is netiquette?

There are informal rules of the Internet which are termed "netiquette" to help people use proper etiquette within this form of communication. For more on online etiquette, click here.

Who is in the group?

That would be telling.

Because Google Groups requires an email address but not a name, I may not have names of all members of the group. We currently have 38 members, and people don't need to join the group to read postings online.

How can I get a copy of the email addresses for members?

You can't. To communicate with the group, send messages to the posting address mac-n-dos@googlegroups.com. We have deliberately blocked access to the subscriber list to prevent addresses from being harvested by spammers.

What topics may be discussed?

Anything relating to Mac and Windows compatibility. Mac-n-DOS is mostly an unmoderated closed group. Unmoderated means messages are sent to the group without prior knowledge of the group owner or managers; closed means only members may post. The group is closed to help fight spam, and first postings from new members must be reviewed and approved by a group manager before they are sent to the group, a step made necessary by spammers.

Because the group is closed, you will only be able to post from a subscribed address.

What topics may not be discussed?

The list is short:

Never post a link for Apple Service Manuals. Apple has a policy of shutting down sites the post such links, and Apple has people on some of our lists, so posting such links contributes to the sites posting this information being shut down. Nobody wins when that happens.
These are Apple lists - don't advocate PCs. Sure, they have their place in the world, but pushing PCs here is asking for trouble. Such posts usually fall under the categories of flaming or trolling. We don't want that here, so stick to Macs.

What tone is expected in the discussion and who will facilitate this?

This has become a kind and helpful community. Since Mac users range from beginners to gurus, please be tolerant of "dumb" questions, and please don't bait or snipe at each other.

The group is expected to handle things responsibly, and members are expected to behave in such a way that the group requires minimal administrative intervention. When action is required, the group owner and managers will act in accordance with our Rules for Group Management. This page also defines terms (ban, block, flame, troll, etc.) and lists the responsibilities of members.

Please report any major breach of netiquette to the .

Is there an accessible archive of messages sent to Mac-n-DOS?

Yes, Google Groups maintains a searchable archive of all their email lists at http://googlegroups.com/lists/.

What other Internet resources are available for users of Macs and PCs?

The Low End Mac is excellent, in my admittedly biased opinion as webmaster. Another excellent resource is Mac Windows.

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