Beige G3 Shut Down Problem
From Malcolm Lubliner
Hello,
Last November I decided to have my stable-as-a-rock beige G3 upgraded to a G4, added a bigger hard drive and
more RAM. I spent more than two months, every other day on average,
back at the shop trying to get the machine to work without crashing.
Directory problems were rampant, and finally I gave up returning to the
shop and hired a talented tech. Over the last few months he's tweaked
and upgraded and cleaned and reinstalled, but somewhere there is a
gremlin code that changes its ID but remains.
The machine now runs better than ever, but nearly every time I boot
up I get the Disc First Aid message that the computer was not shut down
properly. After several of these events, a critical mass is reached and
I need to run Norton. The report is similar - directory problems, and a
several having to do with the shut down clock. I've hunted Google and
can't find a fix or even the same experience. Any help? I've now spent
more than I would have buying a brand new G4.
Thanks,
ML
Malcolm Lubliner
Malcolm Lubliner Photography
http://www.cityvisions.com
Hi Malcolm,
Wish I could suggest something, but I expect that the
professional help you've already received is over my head. If any
readers can suggest a fix or workaround, please wade in.
Your experience is a prima facie example of why
upgrading an older Mac is not always the ideal path to pursue. I've
been tempted several times to stick a G4 upgrade in my old Umax S900, but I would also have to upgrade
the hard drive, video card, RAM, etc., to make the upgrade worthwhile,
and by that time I would have spent a good percentage of the cost of
buying a used G4 tower, which would have a faster system bus and a
whole lot of other built-in stuff that's better than what the old S900
can offer.
Charles
Editor's note: Try testing one upgrade at a time - the
CPU, the hard drive, and each individual memory module. Poorly seated
memory could be the problem, so I'd suggest you start there.
First put in your old memory and see if the computer works. If so,
remove all the old memory and install one new DIMM. Reboot and see what
happens. If that works, install the next. If not, remove it and try
another.
If you have problems with your original memory, RAM is not the
problem. Remove the G4 and put your original G3 back in. If the problem
goes away, you've found your culprit. If not, go back to your old hard
drive. If that fails, check your drive cables.
One of these should point to the cause of your troubles.
Do not rely on Norton to accurately diagnose and repair hard
drive problems. It not only misdiagnoses things, but it can sometimes create more problems than you
had to begin with. You are far better of with DiskWarrior,
TechTool, etc. dk
Re: PowerBook ATA hard disk replacement
From Martin van Luijt
Hi Charles,
I think the USB-initialized drive is missing its (OS 9)
disk-driver. This means you cannot boot from it. You don't need the
driver for a USB drive; all disk-handling is defined in the USB Mass
Storage Protocol.
Under OS X, Disk Utility offers the option for adding/omitting an
OS 9 compatible disk driver when you connect an unformatted drive.
I'm not sure how OS 8/9 handles this.
regards,
Martin
Hi Martin,
That could be it, all right.
Charles
Fragile Power Mac 8600
From Jason Green
Charles,
I note that you and your son have done several rescues of old Macs.
I have bounced this question off a discussion board or two with no
luck.
I recently purchased a used Power Mac 8600. It crashes often.
I have a version of TechTool that says all is well, but the System just
isn't stable. I can run XTension (home automation software) on it for
hours without a problem. It seems that use of the ethernet port
(Internet use or large file sharing transfers) seems to trigger
crashes. Do you have any suggestions on how to diagnose what's really
wrong?
Jason Green
Hi Jason,
You didn't say what version of the Mac OS you are
running. I would suggest upgrading to at least OS 8.6 - and if your
processor is 180 MHz or better, OS 9.1 would be my pick.
There might be some sort of hardware problem with your
ethernet support, but my suspicion is that it's a software issue. The
later OS versions are more robust at handling networking.
You could also try running with just the bare minimum
of system extensions activated to see if you can identify an extension
conflict.
Charles
Editor's note: TechTool is a fine utility, but it doesn't scan
individual files looking for damage. This is the one area where Norton
excels and the primary reason it remains in my troubleshooting arsenal.
If you can identify and remove a damaged file (probably an extension,
control panel, or preference), that may solve your problem.
The other good idea is a clean system install. Don't install over
the old copy of the Mac OS. Use the installer with the "clean install"
option to be sure there are no corrupted files or other things that may
be causing trouble. dk
HELP!
From Thomas Price
I have a Power Macintosh
9500/120 that I recently acquired. Could direct me to anyone that
can tell me how to upgrade it to run OS 9 or maybe even OS X?
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated
Hi Thomas,
OS 9 is easy. Just get an OS 9 install CD and install
it. Don't expect scintillating performance with a 120 MHz 604e chip,
but it will certainly run fine. I would suggest OS 8.6 or even OS 8.1
as a more satisfactory Mac OS version for this speed of machine. That's
what I use on my 117 MHz PowerBook
1400.
Incidentally, the 9500 is a very easy machine to
processor upgrade. The motherboard is essentially the same as the one
in my Umax S900, and the processor daughtercard just slots in. A few
minutes job to change it. You should be able to pick up a faster 604e
processor card (up to 300 MHz) for a pittance these days. There are
also a large number of G3 and G4 processor upgrade options for these
machines. You can go to an 800 MHz G4 if you want to.
As for OS X, it's doable, but I wouldn't suggest it
unless you upgrade to at least a 400 MHz G3. You will need Ryan
Rempel's XPostFacto
installer hack (free from Other World Computing) in order to install
OS X on this officially unsupported machine. Also, don't bother
with OS X unless you're prepared to upgrade the RAM to at least
256 MB (and more is desirable), have a 4 GB or larger hard drive,
and a video card with at least 8 MB of VRAM.
Charles
Editor's note: One more thing. Unless you upgrade to a G3 or G4
processor, you will not be able to install OS X 10.2; you'll be
limited to 10.1.5 or earlier. dk
Macintosh MTU for IP over Ethernet
From Anonymous by request
See AppleCare
Knowledge Base Article 107474: Mac OS X 10.2: How to Set the
MTU Value During Startup.
This is a very detailed explanation , I have tried it and it
works.
Anonymous
Got Redux!
From MUGWump
I want to thank you guys on the
Mac-N-DOS list for your help over the last few days in securing a
complete set of the files of Redux Backup 2.6.2. And none too soon. A
neglected Tucows mirror site in Australia that I got a copy of Redux
PPC from only a few days ago got updated and overhauled, and now that
link is gone. To my knowledge, there's only one link to a combined
archive of the FAT edition and the HTML manual and 2-3 links to the PPC
edition. Plus, there's a MUG which has the FAT edition on disk.
While I'm grateful to all of you, I have to put in a special thanks
to Dermot Geaney; he's the only source I've encountered who had
a copy of the 68K edition.
I just read Charles Moore's mailbag on the LEM site; the URL is
</1996/umax-supermac-j700//misc/03/0512.html>.
He published my letter from an earlier stage in the search, so I'm
cc'ing him and Dan Knight to let them know that I've got 'em all
now.
I haven't gotten a reply from Dan since I last wrote him, so I don't
know if what I sent him will satisfy his permission concerns, but as
soon as those concerns are satisfied, Redux Backup will have a stable
home on Low End Mac.
There is one piece of information that Dan may need to be satisfied.
Information I read on another site (I think it was something like
"Brave New Mac") stated that the rights to the program had reverted to
the original developer of Redux. It would be good to have it for the
record to get an okay from him/her/them. Does anyone know who the
original developer of Redux Backup was and, if so, any ideas on how to
reach this person? Since it's been distributed as freeware and has been
on Tucows with no restrictions from distribution to other people for
personal use mentioned, he may give it the go-ahead on that basis, but
maybe not. An earlier article by Charles mentions a restriction, but
his wording sounds more like the restriction is against OEMs
distributing Redux with commercial products, not distribution in and of
itself. I'm sure Dan and Charles are confabbing on that if Dan's read
my last email. And Charles is probably scratching his head and going
"now what was my source for that piece of information?"
Anyway, thanks again for your help with this. Looks like Redux
Backup is going to be available one way or another as long as there are
Macs that can run it.
Editor's note: Based on our reading of the Read Me
file and documentation, it appears that Redux can be freely distributed
as long as there is no cost involved. We are hosting a copy of Redux
PPC 2.6.2 on our Select Mac Software
Available for Download page. If this is not acceptable to the
original developer, we will remove it. dk
Addendum on XPostFacto, OS X, and the Beige
G3
From Jay Prince
Charles,
Oops! Just found several references to the Beige G3 by searching on
"Beige" on this page:
http://eshop.macsales.com/OSXCenter/XPostFacto/framework.cfm?page=XPostFacto.html
Jay
Mac OS 9.2 on pre-G3s
From Jason Green
Here is the URL of OS 9 Helper, a hack to install 9.2 on pre-G3
Macs. Haven't tried it myself.
http://eshop.macsales.com/OSXCenter/OS9Helper/framework.cfm?topic=32
OS 9.2.x on pre-G3 Macs
From John Cate
Just go here:
http://www.os9helper.com
OS 9.2 on unsupported machines
From Mike Jarve
Hello from sunny northern Minnesota!
OS 9.2 can be installed on unsupported systems. There are a few ways
to do it, but the easiest is to do it is use OS 9 Helper from
http://www.os9forever.com. I
have found this to be useful for installing OS 9.2 on unsupported but
capable systems (particularly those upgraded to a G3, and plenty of
RAM).
Mike
Upgrading from OS 9.1 to 9.2
From Jim Brandt
Hi Charles
Wanted to let you know that I always enjoy reading your articles and
ramblings on Low End Mac. Since I came
across Low End Mac a couple of years ago, I have sold both my Windows
computers and have purchased four different Macs via
eBay - one for every member of the family! My last couple of
purchases have been a used PowerBook and iBook, and I found your
commentary on each very helpful.
You had a question on yesterday's "Miscellaneous Ramblings"
regarding upgrading a Power
Mac 7500 from OS 9.1 to 9.2. OS 9 Helper is some software you
can use to upgrade "unsupported" Macs like the 7500. I've used it to
upgrade both my kids 5500s
(with G3 upgrade cards), and it worked very well. I really haven't
noticed a big difference between 9.1 and 9.2, but it makes me feel more
up to date :-)
The software is available at http://www.os9forever.com. The website
is hosted by Other World
Computing - maybe you could give them a little plug for their
support of low end computing.
Thanks,
Jim Brandt
Editor's note: There are a lot of wonderful Mac
dealers out there, but only a handful provide exemplary support for
older Macs. OWC is one of them, and we're very happy that they also
support Low End Mac. dk
OS 9.2.2 on unsupported machines
From Jay Prince
Greetings Charles,
I saw a request for reader help on installing OS 9.2.2 on
unsupported machines in the section "Mac OS 9 Compatibility, Upgrades,
and Resources" in your Miscellaneous Ramblings column of 2003.05.12.
Oddly enough, I spent hours on the Web researching this (and all things
OS 9) yesterday, as my hope is to move to OS 9 soon. The
following link to "OS 9 Helper" appears to be what's needed:
http://www.os9forever.com/os9helper.html
I spent hours following links and reading the
MacFixIt forum thread on this, and it seems it has been a
stable and finished product for about six months now. Hope this helps
Guillermo get to 9.2 on his 7500.
Regards,
Jay
9.2 on pre-G3
From Peter da Silva
OWC (http://www.macsales.com)
has links to 9.2 helper.
Ah yes...
http://eshop.macsales.com/OSXCenter/OS9Helper/framework.cfm?topic=32
Mac OS 9.2.x on pre-G3 PowerMacs
From Ron Kataoka
Charles,
OS 9.2.x can be installed on pre-G3 Power Macs with OS 9
Helper:
<http://www.os9forever.com/os9helper.html>
I used it to Upgrade my PM
9600/OS 9.1 to 9.2.1 then to 9.2.2. I didn't notice any
"improvements" over OS 9.1. I did have to disable Norton FileSaver
5.0.3, as it caused freezes on shutdown/restart.
Ron
RE: serial bus on an S900
From Kort Jackson
Perhaps I will make an 8.1 floppy for him. He just needs to get it
started so that he can get into the control panel and change his memory
settings that he messed up. And, yes, I was talking about the ADB bus
(some early Apple docs used to call it the serial bus).
I guess having irreplaceable broken parts is the pitfall of owning a
"clone." He needs a new Mac.
Thanks
Kort
Hi Kort,
Apple has a downloadable disk image of an OS 8.1 Disk
Tools Floppy
(Macintosh/System/Mac_OS_8.1_Update/Disk_Tools_PPC./2012/charles-moore-picks-up-a-new-low-end-truck/.bin) on their
software support Website.
http://www.info.apple.com/support/oldersoftwarelist.html
Best,
Charles
Boot floppy for an S900
From Jay Prince
Greetings Charles,
In regards to Kort Jackson's need to boot an S900 from a floppy, I'd like to suggest the
following. Go to
http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/
Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/
Mac_OS_8.1_Update/Disk_Tools_PPC./2012/charles-moore-picks-up-a-new-low-end-truck/.bin
to download the Disk Tools Floppy image, make a floppy from it on a
new (or newly initialized) floppy disk (you're going to need all the
room you can get, and the desktop files can get too large on floppies
that have been reused repeatedly), then go to
http://hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/HyperArchive/
Archive/cfg/cd-sunrise-22c.hqx
to download CD-Sunrise, a freeware CD-ROM driver that works with any
SCSI CD-ROM drive (it does not support audio or ISO CDs, though that's
of no concern here, just as it wasn't when it saved my bacon with an OS
install CD that wouldn't boot). Copy CD-Sunrise to the Extensions
Folder in the System Folder on the Disk Tools Floppy you've just made.
The Disk Tools Floppy PPC image (from my OS 8.1 CD) has Disk First Aid
8.1, Drive Setup Lite 1.4DT, and the System Folder on it with 40K
available; my Disk Tools Floppy disk has those, plus CD-Sunrise, with
19K available. CD-Sunrise takes 1 K on the floppy, the 1K difference
presumably due to three additional invisible files and/or two
additional preference files on the physical disk that aren't on the
image (I've got them both open and have been going back and forth
constantly, comparing things and whatnot, trying to be certain I'm
getting this right; it's been a long time since I made that
floppy).
By the way, the OS 8.5 CD also has a Disk Tools Floppy image on
it.
Hope this helps,
Jay
Thanks Jay,
I must look at my OS 8.5 CD for that Disk Tools
image.
Charles
Advice for Kort Jackson
From Steven Hunter
It may be possible to force booting off a CD by disconnecting the
power cable from the hard drive. Boot the system until you get to the
blinking disk and then insert a bootable CD. Once it starts to boot,
reconnect the power to the hard drive. It should then mount normally.
You can then weed out the offending extension or whatever and
itself.
Of course hot-powering any component may ruin it and possibly the
rest of the computer as well. And it may not boot from the CD at all,
so YMMV.
Also, I assume that you've tried pressing the CUDA switch and
replacing the original CPU?
Steven Hunter
S900 memory configuration problem...
From Peter da Silva
OWC has 200 MB SCSI drives, which should be large enough to fit a
minimum OS 9 install on, for $5. If Kort Jackson disconnects his
system disk and installs one of these (with a different SCSI address,
of course) instead and then boots with the CD-ROM in, it should boot
from the CD-ROM and let him install OS 9 onto this drive. Then
simply reattach the original drive, boot on the new one, and do
whatever he needs to do.
http://eshop.macsales.com/
Catalog_Item.cfm?ID=2923&Item=IBMWDS3200
Alternatively, he might find it worthwhile upgrading to a new drive
for not a lot more. <
http://www.softwareandstuff.com/h_65gbhdrive.html>
USB under OS 8.1
From Torsten Enn
Hello Charles!
You told your reader Kort Jackson OS 8.1 does not support USB.
"Officially" this is correct, but I had my beige G3 running OS 8.1 (with
which it came delivered) for about half a year with a generic USB card
I had picked up cheaply. True, Apple says you need at least OS 8.6, and
the installer refuses to do its work under OS 8.1 - but it works if you
simply drag the extensions to the Extensions folder. At least it did
for me. I didn't even need TomeViewer or something like that; the
installer had both extensions ready to use in a folder. Although I
don't remember if it was the version 1.2 or 1.4 of the extensions.
Apple had some recommendations using the versions under OS 8.6 or 9.0,
but if I remember correctly I used the one Apple recommended for
OS 9 and not 8.6 worked perfectly for my machine.
So perhaps Kort has a chance to make an OS 8.1 boot disk, in case
the OS and the USB extensions fit on one disk.
Torsten
Hi Torsten,
Interesting. I'm always glad to hear of thing that
work even when they're not supposed to. ;-)
Charles
PCI Modem for Macs
From Brandon Starkey
Hi Charles,
There actually are PCI modems for Mac, or that work in them - I
happen to own one. It is a
US Robotics 56k Pro - it works on PC and Mac systems. I paid
about $80 for it, and it's currently sitting in my Windows desktop. I
think I might have ordered it from Comp-U-Plus, but it's been over a
year, so I can't be sure. Hope this is helpful.
Brandon
West Virginia Wesleyan College
Thanks Brandon,
Forwarded the info to Frank.
Charles
Editor's note: We've added a link to a USR modem that seems to be
the on Brandon Starkey is referring to, but USR makes no mention of Mac
support on their website. dk
OS X on the beige G3
From Jay Prince
Greetings Charles,
In regards to Tim Larson's inability to get OS X to install on his
beige G3, just a couple of hours ago I finished listening to Gene
Steinberg's (of The Mac Night
Owl) radio show of 5/9/03 (The Mac Night Owl LIVE). One of the
segments was an interview with Ryan Rempel, the author of XPostFacto,
which makes possible the installation of OS X on a number of
unsupported machines.
Part of the interview dealt with the fact that, for reasons not yet
known to Ryan at the time of the interview, XPostFacto has been
reported to make installing OS X possible on a number of otherwise
recalcitrant beige G3s. This certainly sounds worth a try, especially
considering the cost - free. Go have a look around at:
http://eshop.macsales.com/OSXCenter/XPostFacto/
The beige G3 is not mentioned on that page, but there is this:
"Version 2.2 of XPostFacto adds limited support for the original
PowerBook G3, the 3400, and the 2400."
Wishing you luck,
Jay
Beige G3 and OS X
From Ed Hurtley
I had similar slow/no install difficulties. The fix? To remove all
but one stick of RAM. (At that, remove all but the smallest
stick of RAM.) It installed like a charm. For some reason, OS X
doesn't appear to be able to install on a beige G3 with 256 MB or more
of memory. X will install on 64 MB, though, so if your
reader removes his two 256 MB DIMMs, he should be fine.
I read this on some forums somewhere a few months ago when my
problem cropped up. It also appears to be worse on 10.2.x than on
10.1.x. (I didn't have to remove memory to get 10.1.x installed, it
just took a couple tries. I had to remove memory to get 10.2
installed.)
Ed H.
OS X on Beige G3s...
From Peter da Silva
If Tim Larson doesn't know about OWC's program XPostFacto that
allows you to install OS X on "unsupported" hardware, he should
power over to macsales.com (No, I have no connection to these guys,
other than they've sold me a bunch of hardware and it's all worked, and
they're totally on top of the technology) and get it:
http://eshop.macsales.com/OSXCenter/XPostFacto/
Thanks guys.
He knows now. :-)
Charles
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